Scripps News - 12:00 PM - 1:00 PM - Scott Appleby
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truly historic moment. Hawley unfolding here in Rome.
>> I want to bring in a guest, Scott Appleby with us. Scott, I want to to ask you, first of all, your reaction to what is happening right now. They're the world has a new pope. What are you thinking? What are your emotions at this moment? This is a historic moment for all of us.
>> Well, I'm excited, Holly, and I guess my personal reaction is I'm glad you're not telling me the name of the pope right now. Who might be someone we haven't heard much about. And then I have to make some things up. So knows those who the pope will be and it's very exciting. The next 45 minutes or an hour, Catholics and other people around the world will be a in great anticipation.
>> Talk a little bit about the direction of the Catholic Church and and where it may go, depending on who this pope is. There's so much facing the Catholic Church today and even
00:01:01
world events. But specifically in the church, you've had the sex abuse scandal. You've had misappropriation of funds and then we talk about the world in general where there have been what we've seen tensions around the world from the war in Ukraine and Russia, Palestine and Israel and even what's happening now in India and Pakistan.
>> And then also, you know, around the world, we've seen a decline in of the faithful in the Catholic Church.
>> So what do you think the new pope will tell us about the direction and what the Catholic Church thinks is most important?
>> I think you set forth the issue pretty well there and of course, it depends on who the pope is. Let me suggest there are 3. Types of groups. If the pope will might well come from one of those groups, they the group that's most well known in the run-up to this conclave. I call the successors to Francis. Maybe that front. Pope Francis, the second or the populace. The
00:02:04
spokes will take approaches to the issues you mentioned in the following way. First of all, they'll have a pastoral style. They'll be Progressive, we might say on social justice issues. So that person will care a lot about migrants about war, bringing peace about the church in the world as an ambassador to the world. And as an important voice morally in the world. They will be whoever that is from that camp of France's successors will be liberal to moderate on traditional church practices and doctrines. So there are a number of candidates we can get into that fall into that group. A second group we would say are the out call them the institutional list and some some might call them the more conservative. These are the Cardinals. Some of them have gone on the record who believe that Francis was to have heard the word impulsive, that he didn't pay enough attention to institutional protocols and rules and managing through the
00:03:04
Vatican bureaucracy. And that's probably a fair assessment. Francis deliberately when outside and around was a spontaneous person, I wouldn't say in Polson. And that group is also sometimes called the unity faction these are cardinals who say, ok, we've had a charismatic pope. He's taken us in various directions. It's time to consolidate pay attention to the institution to the internal church affairs to reinforcing doctrine and to enforcing unity, which is a code word. 4 return to more conservative doctrinal position and then the 3rd group, which is the most intriguing is what I call the international list. And some of these are are in the Francis group. Some of these are the institutional group. So they are mixed. But these are papal candidates who come from all over the world an unprecedented way because of Frances is appointments of cardinals from the margins. So
00:04:06
you have the potential apart from the Philippines. Africa is one of the fastest growing senators of Catholicism in the world that had 2 million Catholics in 1900. It has about 236 million Catholics now. So there's an outside possibility and African will be Pope Filipino. In other words, you have a group that whether they're leaning Francis or lean more conservative, the headline will be this is a non-european pope and this is a pope, perhaps from a region that has never produced a pope before. Scott, this is Joe Saint George in Rome. And we so appreciate your expertise as we await with the rest of the world.
>> The name of the successor of Saint Peter, the successor of Pope Francis.
>> Do you think given the fact that this happened on day 2, a day that we kind of had circle on the conclave is being a day that we really could get a
00:05:08
pope. Doesn't mean one of the contenders. One of the Cardinals talked about a lot going into this conclave that it's going to be one of them may be a Cardinal para leaning from Italy. Cardinal Todd Lay from the Philippines just given the fact that this happened likely on the 4th ballot. Love to wait and see for official word but likely on the 4th ballot. No, you're right. I the first instinct in a relatively short conclave.
>> Is that people are gathering around them and perhaps an institution list. And that would point to Pete Rope Hurley who you mentioned who has been number 2, Pope, Francis. So the Progressive faction, if you want to call it that would welcome him on that score. But he's also he's been the Cardinal Secretary of state, very important administrative diplomatic position. Pair a lien is more of an institutional is he crosses T's dot eyes and he has not been in any way
00:06:08
marginalized by Francis. Hardly they they have worked together well. On the other hand, Francis in with the diplomatic corps. As light on the community center, geo outside the Vatican, he's gone beyond the traditional institutional confines, if you will, of of the Vatican. And so one might think that the the relatively quick vote was consolidating around the kind of centrist moderate candidate who work with Francis but is not as many say freewheeling as Francis. That would be the first suggestion. The other thought is that wow,
>> They came in and they have decided they came in a spirit. We didn't really pick up on its a consensus spirit that either.
>> We really have to double down on the Francis pontificate. And elect someone who is much in his spirit, if not entirely his style or on the other hand, it might be
00:07:11
time not just to go to moderate, but to go back to a traditional dust. So if that that those are both more unlikely, I think because that would have taken one would lot of back and forth their number of ballots if one of those factions. So to speak had come in with a head of steam. I still think that still would have taken a little bit longer to decide on a candidate from either one of those factions. Professor, Appleby is that we're watching.
>> Unfold. Sorry, Holly, images are so powerful coming in from Saint Peter's Square of people just crying and chanting cheering and these images with the sun, the setting sun here in Rome, where at 6.22, in the evening it's going to set up a it's going to set up a moment for this new leader at the golden hour. Almost to come on Saint Peter's Falcon and I I don't know if the Cardinals planned and I doubt if they did, but
00:08:13
this isn't the wee hour of the morning People in the United States Latin America South America. It'll be prime time or close to prime time across Europe and across Africa for such a global church. The time of this is an opportunity for them to have as many eyeballs as possible to hear that phrase. We're going to Bay News declared shortly from the balcony of Saint Peter's in the name of the cardinal that has been elevated to the papacy. I'm curious as we continue our live coverage here on Scripps News. If you are. In hurricane Catholic, you know, what do you think? And professor, that you should be looking out for in this moment because the church for Pope Francis had many fans. But you are well aware. There were also some divisions. There were also some people who did not necessarily like the style of of Pope Francis. What would you say to the the American Catholic again, on the verge of getting for some
00:09:13
may be the only the 4th or 5th, both the pope of their lifetime. One would hope that the pope will have the skill. To try to effect some kind of reconciliation in the church. More generally around the world.
>> Certainly in the U.S. Catholic Church, which is divided. From my perspective on on more or less, one side of that can my hope would be that the successor to Francis would retain his pastoral style. His charisma, his love of humanity in reaching out beyond the borders of the church. That someone who would do that in a way that reassures the institutional us that reassures those who think we've gotten too far away from the core doctrines the church can can. One person effect that kind of balance? I think it's possible it would have to be someone who, though, primary within the church itself is to try not bring
00:10:14
unity, at least to bring some level of reconciliation. So they're there can be some healing fractures in the church.
>> Professor Appleby, let me ask you about where this pope may have come from, what country this cardinal hails from and maybe the age of the cardinal. What will that also say about what this conclave wanted for the next papacy going forward.
>> Well, you know, of course, this is all speculation, there's a lot of talk about the Cardinals not wanting are being wary. Let's put that way are hesitant to elect a pope who is too young now. Everything's relative. 2 young, the probably still in his early 60's or so or even in his 60's.
>> Because John Paul, the second was elected when he was 58 and he served for 26 years as pope. He was the 3rd longest reigning pope in
00:11:16
history and he had a fantastic pontiff. A kid was it was a stunningly, I think in most ways, very successful pontificate. On the other hand. Is this college of Cardinals from all around the world. So certain of where it wants to go. It's willing to risk having the pontificate it. That's 2 or 3 decades long. Probably not so age will. I think the some some factor, although there's some very capable able leaders who are in their early 60's. And so we'll have to see about that around the world. Were they be from? Again? That would depend on how important it is to the consensus of the cardinals that the church continues 2. Message to the world that it is a church. None of the margins of the periphery. But it alone. But it's truly global. And that we're not going to go back to European or an Italian. There's strong candidates from
00:12:16
Europe and Italy. No doubt about that.
>> But if this is a pope that comes from the Philippines or Africa or elsewhere in the world are we haven't had appropriate for a long time ever. The signal there is the church and leadership of the church. It is going to double down on the global church and upon the church. That is not as well known. So American Catholic, for example.
>> We have to take a quick break, but please don't go anywhere. When we return more
>> I want to bring in a guest, Scott Appleby with us. Scott, I want to to ask you, first of all, your reaction to what is happening right now. They're the world has a new pope. What are you thinking? What are your emotions at this moment? This is a historic moment for all of us.
>> Well, I'm excited, Holly, and I guess my personal reaction is I'm glad you're not telling me the name of the pope right now. Who might be someone we haven't heard much about. And then I have to make some things up. So knows those who the pope will be and it's very exciting. The next 45 minutes or an hour, Catholics and other people around the world will be a in great anticipation.
>> Talk a little bit about the direction of the Catholic Church and and where it may go, depending on who this pope is. There's so much facing the Catholic Church today and even
00:01:01
world events. But specifically in the church, you've had the sex abuse scandal. You've had misappropriation of funds and then we talk about the world in general where there have been what we've seen tensions around the world from the war in Ukraine and Russia, Palestine and Israel and even what's happening now in India and Pakistan.
>> And then also, you know, around the world, we've seen a decline in of the faithful in the Catholic Church.
>> So what do you think the new pope will tell us about the direction and what the Catholic Church thinks is most important?
>> I think you set forth the issue pretty well there and of course, it depends on who the pope is. Let me suggest there are 3. Types of groups. If the pope will might well come from one of those groups, they the group that's most well known in the run-up to this conclave. I call the successors to Francis. Maybe that front. Pope Francis, the second or the populace. The
00:02:04
spokes will take approaches to the issues you mentioned in the following way. First of all, they'll have a pastoral style. They'll be Progressive, we might say on social justice issues. So that person will care a lot about migrants about war, bringing peace about the church in the world as an ambassador to the world. And as an important voice morally in the world. They will be whoever that is from that camp of France's successors will be liberal to moderate on traditional church practices and doctrines. So there are a number of candidates we can get into that fall into that group. A second group we would say are the out call them the institutional list and some some might call them the more conservative. These are the Cardinals. Some of them have gone on the record who believe that Francis was to have heard the word impulsive, that he didn't pay enough attention to institutional protocols and rules and managing through the
00:03:04
Vatican bureaucracy. And that's probably a fair assessment. Francis deliberately when outside and around was a spontaneous person, I wouldn't say in Polson. And that group is also sometimes called the unity faction these are cardinals who say, ok, we've had a charismatic pope. He's taken us in various directions. It's time to consolidate pay attention to the institution to the internal church affairs to reinforcing doctrine and to enforcing unity, which is a code word. 4 return to more conservative doctrinal position and then the 3rd group, which is the most intriguing is what I call the international list. And some of these are are in the Francis group. Some of these are the institutional group. So they are mixed. But these are papal candidates who come from all over the world an unprecedented way because of Frances is appointments of cardinals from the margins. So
00:04:06
you have the potential apart from the Philippines. Africa is one of the fastest growing senators of Catholicism in the world that had 2 million Catholics in 1900. It has about 236 million Catholics now. So there's an outside possibility and African will be Pope Filipino. In other words, you have a group that whether they're leaning Francis or lean more conservative, the headline will be this is a non-european pope and this is a pope, perhaps from a region that has never produced a pope before. Scott, this is Joe Saint George in Rome. And we so appreciate your expertise as we await with the rest of the world.
>> The name of the successor of Saint Peter, the successor of Pope Francis.
>> Do you think given the fact that this happened on day 2, a day that we kind of had circle on the conclave is being a day that we really could get a
00:05:08
pope. Doesn't mean one of the contenders. One of the Cardinals talked about a lot going into this conclave that it's going to be one of them may be a Cardinal para leaning from Italy. Cardinal Todd Lay from the Philippines just given the fact that this happened likely on the 4th ballot. Love to wait and see for official word but likely on the 4th ballot. No, you're right. I the first instinct in a relatively short conclave.
>> Is that people are gathering around them and perhaps an institution list. And that would point to Pete Rope Hurley who you mentioned who has been number 2, Pope, Francis. So the Progressive faction, if you want to call it that would welcome him on that score. But he's also he's been the Cardinal Secretary of state, very important administrative diplomatic position. Pair a lien is more of an institutional is he crosses T's dot eyes and he has not been in any way
00:06:08
marginalized by Francis. Hardly they they have worked together well. On the other hand, Francis in with the diplomatic corps. As light on the community center, geo outside the Vatican, he's gone beyond the traditional institutional confines, if you will, of of the Vatican. And so one might think that the the relatively quick vote was consolidating around the kind of centrist moderate candidate who work with Francis but is not as many say freewheeling as Francis. That would be the first suggestion. The other thought is that wow,
>> They came in and they have decided they came in a spirit. We didn't really pick up on its a consensus spirit that either.
>> We really have to double down on the Francis pontificate. And elect someone who is much in his spirit, if not entirely his style or on the other hand, it might be
00:07:11
time not just to go to moderate, but to go back to a traditional dust. So if that that those are both more unlikely, I think because that would have taken one would lot of back and forth their number of ballots if one of those factions. So to speak had come in with a head of steam. I still think that still would have taken a little bit longer to decide on a candidate from either one of those factions. Professor, Appleby is that we're watching.
>> Unfold. Sorry, Holly, images are so powerful coming in from Saint Peter's Square of people just crying and chanting cheering and these images with the sun, the setting sun here in Rome, where at 6.22, in the evening it's going to set up a it's going to set up a moment for this new leader at the golden hour. Almost to come on Saint Peter's Falcon and I I don't know if the Cardinals planned and I doubt if they did, but
00:08:13
this isn't the wee hour of the morning People in the United States Latin America South America. It'll be prime time or close to prime time across Europe and across Africa for such a global church. The time of this is an opportunity for them to have as many eyeballs as possible to hear that phrase. We're going to Bay News declared shortly from the balcony of Saint Peter's in the name of the cardinal that has been elevated to the papacy. I'm curious as we continue our live coverage here on Scripps News. If you are. In hurricane Catholic, you know, what do you think? And professor, that you should be looking out for in this moment because the church for Pope Francis had many fans. But you are well aware. There were also some divisions. There were also some people who did not necessarily like the style of of Pope Francis. What would you say to the the American Catholic again, on the verge of getting for some
00:09:13
may be the only the 4th or 5th, both the pope of their lifetime. One would hope that the pope will have the skill. To try to effect some kind of reconciliation in the church. More generally around the world.
>> Certainly in the U.S. Catholic Church, which is divided. From my perspective on on more or less, one side of that can my hope would be that the successor to Francis would retain his pastoral style. His charisma, his love of humanity in reaching out beyond the borders of the church. That someone who would do that in a way that reassures the institutional us that reassures those who think we've gotten too far away from the core doctrines the church can can. One person effect that kind of balance? I think it's possible it would have to be someone who, though, primary within the church itself is to try not bring
00:10:14
unity, at least to bring some level of reconciliation. So they're there can be some healing fractures in the church.
>> Professor Appleby, let me ask you about where this pope may have come from, what country this cardinal hails from and maybe the age of the cardinal. What will that also say about what this conclave wanted for the next papacy going forward.
>> Well, you know, of course, this is all speculation, there's a lot of talk about the Cardinals not wanting are being wary. Let's put that way are hesitant to elect a pope who is too young now. Everything's relative. 2 young, the probably still in his early 60's or so or even in his 60's.
>> Because John Paul, the second was elected when he was 58 and he served for 26 years as pope. He was the 3rd longest reigning pope in
00:11:16
history and he had a fantastic pontiff. A kid was it was a stunningly, I think in most ways, very successful pontificate. On the other hand. Is this college of Cardinals from all around the world. So certain of where it wants to go. It's willing to risk having the pontificate it. That's 2 or 3 decades long. Probably not so age will. I think the some some factor, although there's some very capable able leaders who are in their early 60's. And so we'll have to see about that around the world. Were they be from? Again? That would depend on how important it is to the consensus of the cardinals that the church continues 2. Message to the world that it is a church. None of the margins of the periphery. But it alone. But it's truly global. And that we're not going to go back to European or an Italian. There's strong candidates from
00:12:16
Europe and Italy. No doubt about that.
>> But if this is a pope that comes from the Philippines or Africa or elsewhere in the world are we haven't had appropriate for a long time ever. The signal there is the church and leadership of the church. It is going to double down on the global church and upon the church. That is not as well known. So American Catholic, for example.
>> We have to take a quick break, but please don't go anywhere. When we return more
Scripps News - 12:00 PM - 1:00 PM - Scott Appleby
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